This is a thread from the comment section of a YouTube video. Some comments have been edited out because they were in response to another thread, so not relevant here. Some third party comments were removed, but the replies from Greg or Itchy were not. My apologies to those whose comments were left out, but the thread is already quite long.
Here is the original thread unedited but minus Greg's comments subsequent to his being blocked.


Itchy Boy
Here's 2 pics that prove this was staged. In one, Jeff's right leg is covered and ends mid thigh. In the other, its uncovered and gory and ends at the knee. Who can debunk it?

Greg McKee
Here's what I have posted previously. I think I can see what you are referring to in pic
I misread your comments and assumed you were referring to his tibia and fibula.
You mean how his Right thigh's PANTS are obscured by the flap of flesh from his left leg , the same flap of flesh visible in the front on image here: where his left calf skin is split into multiple strips like a banana peel.
In his right knee is BEHIND, ie below his left Knee.
I think you are assuming his right thigh ends because his right thigh PANTS end before the full length of his left thigh and the end of the pants gives the impression to the assumption-making inexpert observer that his thigh ended where his pants ended. You can see in This image his rht thigh pants do not extend to his torn remnants of right knee: and PRIOR to those images this image was captured on video showing his right knee is the same length as his left. Sorry but in image analysis you need to look at ALL available images. Not make assumptions from images with obscured detail. This is a basic requirement for any valid dimensional analysis from still images.


Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee Thanks. In the pic where Jeff's leg appears truncated, you're asserting that:
1. We have several images with the thighs equal length versus one image where it appears truncated
2. Jeff's thigh is sticking out of the pant leg, but we can't see it because the skin flap is obscuring it
3. His right knee is hidden by his left knee

Have I listed and understood your main points correctly?


Greg McKee
1 . We have several images with the thighs equal length and I see no image where it appears truncated. I can see that if you assume that his right thigh is covered in some sock like pants (who makes baggy pants sewn up above knee height? ) then you might assume the end of what you think is an amputee sockpant indicates the end of his leg, but if you look at the surrounding video frames of that sequence as he is rolling it is clear that is NOT a sewn up sock like short right pant leg but simply normal open ended pants and his torn right knee is protruding from it.

2. Yes, but we CAN see a short length of Jeff's right thigh but a long flap of skin from his shredded left calf is draped over it. Whoever isolated that close up insert deliberately bloomed or "posterised" the contrast so that dissimilar value pixels assume the same value. This has the effect of removing detail from an image and making it harder to make out definition of forms . The only conclusion I can make is that the person posterising that image was deliberately trying to misrepresent what is shown.

3.Yes, his right thigh is approximately parallel to his left thigh and the bulk of his remaining right knee is on the opposite side of the camera to his left knee and thus obscured.

It is silly to look at that one image in isolation when in fact it's just one of a series showing him rolling around and the series clearly shows his right knee protrudes out from the open ended pants that you were assuming to be some sort of close ended sock.

The issue we are dealing with here is common in VFX and sculpting and is known as temporal spatial perception. Many people have huge difficulty in working out the three dimension characteristics of objects that they see, even when they see the object from different angles over TIME (temporal). It is a common characteristic of people who cannot draw 3Dimensional objects and if you show them even something simple like a cube cannot draw a accurate perspective drawing of it with a corner facing the virtual observer. Ie they have difficulty seeing an object, holding a 3Dimensional representation of it in their mind, then rotating that mental 3D model into another orientation and redrawing it on paper from THAT mental model map.

Can I ask do you have online examples of perspective drawings that you have done of complex objects?


Itchy Boy
I misunderstood. I think you're saying the part of Jeff's leg we can't see is under the red. Is that correct? I'm going to assume that's what you meant. To me, it looks like the red is flat to the ground. But you're the expert so please help me see what you're seeing. What visual cues in the photo tell you that the flap is over Jeff's leg instead of on the ground as it looks to me?


Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee Here's what visual cues I see and what they tell me. The end of Jeff's tibia is about 10 inches off the ground, and his left knee is a few inches off the ground. The red spot (flap) looks much lower than that.

Also, there's a shadow on the sidewalk at the back of Jeff's right leg. It runs straight down the back of his thigh for a bit then crosses over towards the front of his thigh. There's a strip of (presumably) blood there, facing us so it looks like the end, not the side. The shadow should have continued in more or less a straight line instead of crossing over.


Greg McKee
No his left knee is a thigh height above the ground. Again you are doing what I've had stubborn sculptors do when asked to look at details of sharks etc and they stick to ONE picture and what they THINK they are seeing and don't compare the same feature to its corresponding position in OTHER PHOTOS. you have to look at an object from MULTIPLE ANGLES, not GUESS what you are seeing from an indistinct single orientation still. Sorry dude but this is BASIC DESIGN PRACTICE we are talking about.

Sorry but it is a huge problem I encounter regularly with people who are poorly skilled at working out spatial geometry from still images and tend to be poorly skilled at drawing. There is a whole field of photo interpretation we use regularly called photogrammetry and it's wise to heed its lessons. You cannot SANELY assert what you think you are seeing from a single frame of an image sequence, nor a single view of an object when multiple views are available that completely clear up the reality. Jeff's legs are visible from multiple viewpoints in the same SEQUENCE of images that this still is taken from as he rolls around side to side. The other images clearly show his thighs are the SAME LENGTH and this one still image simply has a flap of muscle and skin draping down from his left knee where his left calf has been "de-gloved". His right knee is on the opposite side of his left knee obscured from camera view.and the strip of red flesh that you seem to think is on the ground is hanging from the back of his left knee. ie his left calf has been split right up the rear middle into two halves.
You can see this clearly also in the wheelchair images how his left calf flesh and muscle dangle I'll mark out the images tomorrow if I get a chance so you can see what corresponds to what in the images.


Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee. Thanks for your detailed reply. With your knowledge of photogrammetry , what specific visual cues do you see in the photo that tell you
1. Jeff's left knee is a 'thigh height' from the ground
2. The flap goes over the leg and is not flat to the ground.


Greg McKee
Please read what photogrametry means and how it works. The picture you reference is part of a SERIES that shows what happens over just a few seconds.
Images taken before and after the shot you are referring to show the same features from different views .
Here is a series of six completely different sculptures. Notice how the sculpture at top left has No tail and the sculpture at bottom right only has one eye... a cyclops obviously. The sculpture at the bottom middle only has one completely smooth featureless unmarked cylindrical leg...... Do you agree? Study each photograph closely and tell me if my deduction from looking at each individual image is correct.

Here is an image sequence of Bauman taken seconds BEFORE the image you refer to. GET THAT? BEFORE. Krystle Campbel is still ALIVE at this point and screaming Is his right knee covered in a sock? Does his right thigh appear to be a different length to the left thigh? Here is a pc of bauman a few seconds apart from your pic. Notice the flaps of shredded skin hanging from his left knee and thigh and his right knee NOT in a sock but protruding past the pants end that you THOUGHT were a closed sock structure. Here's the SAME long shreds of skin:and there are other angles of the same injuries all identical with the first fraction of a second after the blast.


Itchy Boy
The photo is NOT part of the Thorndyke or Tang sequences. It was taken by Carlos.

Photogrammetry is not relevant here since it is the process of creating a 3D map from at least 2 images taken at different angles. We're only dealing with a single image so we have to take our cues from lighting and other features visible in the photo.

All the images of Jeff with equal thighs are not evidence against the allegation that he's wearing a prosthetic in all those images. As proof of the allegation, one photo has been submitted with the claim that it shows Jeff's real stump without any prosthetic. We only need be concerned with this single photo.

I'm asking a simple question - what cues in the photo in question tell you Jeff's knee is 'thigh height' and the flap is draped over the leg ? You can't answer that, can you?

Let me help you answer my question…THERE ARE NO VISUAL CUES to tell us Jeff's knee is 'thigh height', or that the flap is draped over the leg.


Greg McKee
Sorry but you are 100% WRONG. It is IRRELEVANT which series of pictures it is taken from because it is an image taken from a GROUP of images that all occurred within SECONDS of each other and so are dimensionally cross referenced. We have a sequence of images of Bauman seconds before the picture you are misinterpreting. The temporally preceding images taken less than 5 seconds after the blast show Bauman with calves destroyed, IDENTICAL injuries to all later pictures and full length thighs of equal length. The picture you are misinterpreting then fits in time AFTER those images of him with full length thighs and then there are more images from the Carlos series that ALSO show full length thighs. AT NO POINT IS THERE ANY PHOTO THAT SHOWS A DIFFERENT THINGH LENGTH.

ONLY your ignorance of photo interpretation, political belief distorted , illogical and poor observation skills lead you to think there was a "sock" over Bauman's right thigh that is continuous with his pants.
Your original suggestion that he would have an external pair of pants that are sewn up at the end to produce a "SOCK" simply shows your desperate confirmation bias to interpret the ONE image to fulfil your pre-existing politically motivated BELIEF in the scene being faked. You ignore all the other images before and after in time and from multiple views that ALL contradict your interpretation of one image.

ONE image out of an extended sequence that can only be interpreted your way if ALL THE OTHER IMAGES ARE DELIBERATELY IGNORED.

NO DIFFERENT to insisting the road runner character has no tail or only one eye.:

I asked you previously to submit an example of a three dimensional perspective drawing to demonstrate your brains ability to visualise spatial geometry CORRECTLY and to reproduce that mental image onto a 2-dimensional format... ie a DRAWING which would demonstrate whether or not your brain is capable of accurately processing visual data and can process basic perspective and parallax etc. You have not done so. I suspect that you have no such ability. I suspect stick figures are your limit but are happy to be proven wrong. You can easily contradict my assertion by providing an example of your accurate perspective skills in drawing form.....


Greg McKee
"We're only dealing with a single image" NO , WRONG. You are dealing with MULTIPLE IMAGES of the same person and the same body features taken from multiple vantage points all within the space of a few seconds. Sorry kid, you are either trolling or mentally ill. Which is it?


Itchy Boy
I am stating that Jeff's left knee is touching or almost touching the ground. What cues in the photo tell me this? If you zoom in on a big screen you'll see:

The man's heel is about 5 or 6 inches from the ground. The end of Jeff's tibia looks about the same. Regardless of the specific height, the tibia's shadow is to the left of the tibia. The shadow tapers towards the knee indicating the knee is closer to the ground than the tibia. If the knee were off the ground, we would see more shadow at the knee area. The shadow wouldn't taper as much as it does. Another cue is the angle of Jeff's left thigh from the hip to the knee. It couldn't be at such a steep angle if the other knee was underneath it.

There you have in a few sentences of simple language anyone can understand, a description of the visual cues telling me the knee is on the ground. Can you post a brief description anyone can understand of the cues in the photo that tell you his knee is a 'thigh width' from the ground. (My knee is just over 4.5 inches.)

You needn't waste words proving me wrong. Just prove yourself right in a brief statement like I just submitted.


Greg McKee
You are ASSUMING you are seeing the tibias shadow and your poor observation skills and lack of knowledge of global illumination characteristics and ambient occlusion makes you carelessly think the tibia is at a low height. What you think is a shadow in a highly compressed DELIBERATELY detail degraded picture is in fact more of Bauman's shredded flesh, NOT a shadow.
There is MORE of baumans flesh above and to the right of the credit card looking object that lump of gooey meat is STILL attached by the long strip of skin to the back of his left knee.

See the dark brownish red flesh frill draping from the base of the tibia and giving the ILLUSION of being a shadow? The other pic from the same sequence shows the red brown frilled flesh more clearly like a series of strips. You can also see the same detail in the wheel chair ride images. This image which PRECEDES the others (comes earlier) also shows his right knee at equal thigh length

So effectively your timeline goes: Jeff has both calves missing and full length thighs when first seen immediately as smoke clears, then after an extended SERIES of images with full thigh lengths and both knees present and calf damage, one SINGLE image your misinterpreted one with right knee obscured by left knee and dark flesh giving false impression of ambient occlusion and draping flesh partially obscuring right thigh , a moment later another pic from same vantage point shows exactly the same detail as original image sequence.

Or in your deluded fantasy world... sequence shows jeff with no calves and full thigh length, jeff has short thigh for split second, jeff has normal length thigh for all other shots exactly matching first images. Itchy boy only studies DELIBERATELY degraded detail erased bloomed image from conspiracy site and ignores higher detail intact image of same picture. WHY are you so gullible and desperately craving a conspiracy that you abandon all logic and common sense to fullfill your confirmation bias?

I guess that road runner really didn't have a tail and only has one eye right? Because to you it makes perfect sense to TOTALLY IGNORE all the other images that contain detailed

visual information of the same object and you can just assert that what you THINK you are seeing but are not thinking logically or critically about MUST be true because it satisfies your preconceived paranoid political beliefs.

" The end of Jeff's tibia looks about the same" You think you can just look and guess and know... You trust your eyes and assumptions that much from one degraded image to ignore ALL OTHER DATA? So you can see instantly that these two squares A and B are exactly the same colour right? You knew that straight away right just by looking.....


Itchy Boy
You have stated Jeff's knee is a 'thigh height' from the ground in that photo.

I have repeatedly asked you to describe what visual cues tell you that is so. You have repeatedly evaded answering the question. The obvious conclusion:

This world renown graphics expert cannot describe a single visual detail in the photo that tells him the knee is elevated.


Greg McKee
His left knee is the height of the thickness of his right thigh approximately. Look at the hanging dark red flesh from his left knee . There are two "frills of flesh and then a stringy piece and then another larger blob of flesh dangling from that visible immediately to the left of the light diamond shaped patch of ground beneath his tibia.
The measured dimension of that continuous length of stringy flesh is greater than the width of his calf and also equivalent to the width of his thigh. On my screen 1.5cm. Since the camera is HIGHER than the tibia, anything hanging from it will actually have a LONGER measurement in reality than a measurement of the image representation due to basic perspective foreshortening. That means the hanging strip of flesh is suspended at least a full calf width and so due to similar dimensions of Baumans thigh, a thigh diameter height above the ground.

I haven't 'avoided' the question. You have so many misconceptions about image and 3dimensional form interpretation that those needed to be addressed and you STILL show no indication that you have grasped anything, but in 'truther" or creationist form have fixated on trying to "catch someone out" rather than understand the issues being addressed. Very telling that you have not admitted your nonsensical assertion that Bauman has a "SOCK" over the end of his right thigh . It is extremely obvious since you have only been looking at the highly detail degraded image that you have mistaken the dark flesh as a shadow or ambient occlusion, when in fact it is nothing of the sort.
Ie your inexperienced mind is using a dark region of image and assumes that it indicates closeness to another surface (ambient occlusion) However the inexperienced observer (yourself) can be easily fooled by misleading visual cues of dark objects resembling shadows and shadows from one object being misinterpreted as the shadow from another.

hence the popularity of this image:


Itchy Boy
You keep referring to OTHER photos to make your point.

You refuse to cite what evidence you see IN THAT PHOTO that tells you Jeff's left knee is elevated. That's precisely what you're AVOIDING because all the visual cues tell you his left knee is on the ground.

Therefore you are basing your conclusion on the ASSUMPTION that his right knee is there because you've seen it in other images. That's why you have to keep referring to them.

So, thanks for answering my question. We now know you're basing your conclusion on an assumption.


Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee If you're not basing your conclusion on an assumption, please provide a SHORT, SIMPLE explanation of the visual cues IN THE ONE PHOTO that tell you Jeff's knee is elevated.

We don't need a big, wordy reply with superfluous, diversionary text, or references to other photos. If that's what you give us again, you will remove any doubt that you are skating around the issue.

If you're unable to give a BRIEF description WITHOUT REFERENCE to OTHER PHOTOS, then clearly you are working on ASSUMPTION. Keep in mind how stupid you think I am and word your reply accordingly. Just describe one or two visual cues. Can you do it in 100 words?

Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee I have been using the highest rez version I could find. Your accusing me of insisting you evaluate a lo-rez version is really scraping the bottom of your tactics barrel. It only shows how desperate you are to save face. We both know any 5 year old could tell Jeff's knee is on the ground, regardless of image resolution.

I asked for a simple 100 word description and as expected, got a wordy bunch of obfuscation and diversion.

No doubt, if I ask again for a short, direct answer you will again respond with more gobbledegook. You'll tell me I don't know about ambient occlusion, that I smoke too much pot, that I insist you use degraded images. You'll link to optical illusions, challenge me to demonstrate my drawing ability, conflate images, excoriate me for using the word 'sock', etc, etc.

Anything and everything to avoid complying with my simple request in a forthright manner.

You did say, "The single photo does not contain an image of Baumans right knee because it is BEHIND his left knee. The presence of his normal length right thigh is more than adequately demonstrated in THE PRECEEDING images…"

That's the sort of simple, direct answer I'm looking for, but this example only proves you're basing your conclusion on an assumption.

Your best course of action now is to man up and admit the event was staged, or admit you've been intentionally misleading people. That would earn you a lot more respect than your past behaviour.

Greg McKee
Nope, I 100% disagree Jeff's left knee is NOT on the ground, it is on top of his RIGHT KNEE. You are not understanding what you are looking at. Jeff's RIGHT KNEE is visible in the picture AS WELL as his left knee.
The end of his right thigh bone is visible in the picture as I have described. Sorry dude but you are ignorant of physiology and have poor spatial perception.
I'm not desperate to save face because I have not "lost face" . You are "projecting" and desperately trying to distract from the absurdity of your claim that jeff's right thigh ended where his right leg OPEN ENDED pants stop being visible. You fixated on a SINGLE image due to your paranoid obsessional confirmation bias and your gullibility and suggestibility to anything you think contradicts "official narrative".
You stubbornly try to cling to an absurd interpretation of a single slightly ambiguous image from a SEQUENCE and since you have invested so much emotionally in trying to prove an image and prosthetics expert wrong as a way of boosting your self esteem you won't let go and admit your mistake and naivete.
Really kid you are just totally embarrassing yourself. I'm trying to be polite and not laugh to hard or be sarcastic but you really deserve it.
I can see your main error is thinking you are seeing a single knee rather than both his knees overlapped. Since the skintones of his intact knee flesh match and there is minimal ambient occlusion it looks rather like a single knee just like this pic at first glance looks like a single face : In jeff's case since his knees are actually the same person it is harder to distinguish the overlap than the greater difference of adult and baby skin overlap.
If I have time I'll do a marked up overlay to point out the details in the picture you are misinterpreting.


Greg McKee
Thanks Tyler. Your comment is welcome. Unfortunately there are a lot of troubled people on the internet desperately to claim everything is faked and every authority is wrong.
It's a well known psychosis and takes years for some people to snap out of if at all.
It's well described here: "for people who hold a conspiracist worldview, the specifics of a conspiracy theory are less important than its identity as a conspiracy and its opposition to the official explanation. " In  other words the actual EVIDENCE is unimportant to them and the fact that their belief is unsupported by verifiable evidence and does not hold up under detailed investigation is immaterial , what is important to conspiracy believers is that their idea is counter to established "official" account of events.

It becomes a core belief system.. ie cult psychology and usually if a person starts to believe one nonsense they will embrace all of them, chemtrails, orbs, 911 and any other form of terrorism attack being "faked", moon landing denial, morgellons, anti vax, UFOs, eventually reptillians, even flat earth. As long as it fits AGAINST perceived authority the believer falls deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of delusion.
It's the embracing of utter BS and denial of verifiable evidence and science in general.
It's often common in people who were rebellious school failures but didn't have the strength of character to admit self fault or laziness but took issue with teachers correcting them when wrong. Teachers who constant correct their errors become authority figures they HATE and intense resentment is felt towards classmates who sail through school effortlessly . Rather than admiring the smart kids and seeking to emulate their skills and knowledge they are resented as "KNOW IT ALLS" and these people desperately want to find something, ANYTHING they think the smarty pants don't know. So they obsess in the fantasy of all the smart people being "sheeple" and only they are aware of "chemtrails" or other absurd nonsense. They think they are part of a club of 'in the know ' conspiracy believers who are awesome at research because they watch youtube videos (without ever fact checking carefully)


Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee True to form, your reply was exactly as predicted.

Suddenly now, you've added a new twist - Jeff's right knee was visible in the photo all along!
Why didn't you say so in the first place? We could have saved a lot of time.

But I guess you needed that time to dream up something that people like Tyler and N Rozay might swallow. Is this your own invention, or did your Met-a-skunk pals help? Or maybe you just didn't see it before because you were obeying my command to only look at intentionally degraded images.

I do sincerely admire your resourcefulness and never-give-up attitude. You remind me of the Monty Python scene where the Black Knight loses an arm and says, "It's just a scratch."

Thanks for offering a marked up overlay - yes, I'd love to see your latest concoction. If its not too much trouble, for completeness, could you also point to the cues that tell you anything is hanging over part of Jeff's leg?


Itchy Boy
@Tyler_Plurden Greg is right about one thing. Once you crack open one staged event you'll probably crack open the rest and then you'll begin to see we've been lied to about a lot of stuff. And you will come to understand who's doing the lying and why.

The term 'conspiracy theory' has been intentionally characterized as derogatory to dissuade people from paying any attention. TV, movies, sports, video games are there to keep you distracted from seeking truth.

The psychological mumbo jumbo about conspiracy theorists is another ploy to dissuade people from giving them a proper hearing. If you really want to know the truth you should at least temporarily ignore the psycho-babble and evaluate the evidence on its own merits.

If Jeff had legs at Costco, perhaps you didn't know they were prosthetics. It can be proven in many ways that Jeff was an amputee previous to the marathon. So was Erika Brannok as ydafckdoihave2have1 shows in his most recent video. Watch some PlasmaBurns videos and draw your own conclusions.

Don't allow peer pressure or fear of ridicule stop you from conducting your own investigation.


Its crazy to think think the government is 100% honest with everything they say. Its equally as crazy to believe they lie about 100% of everything


Itchy Boy
Nobody's saying they lie 100% of the time. Its more like 90%. You will never see the truth if you dismiss specific evidence with generalities like "too many would have to know and somebody would squeal" or "its crazy to believe they lie about everything.". You have to evaluate each piece of evidence on its own merits. Long held beliefs are not easily dispelled, even by incontestable facts.

Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee While we're waiting for you to show us where Jeff's right knee is visible in the photo, below is a collection of quotes from your comments in this thread. Taken together they make a convincing case that your conclusion is based on the Assumption his right knee is there because you've seen it in so many other photos.

Will your illustration be able to overcome the weight of these statements? Will your illustration leave the photo unaltered save for your markings, or will it involve photoshopping or processing such as to minimize ambient occlusion or something like that?

Greg said:
…and PRIOR to those images this image was captured on video showing his right knee is the same length as his left. Sorry but in image analysis you need to look at ALL available images.

We have several images with the thighs equal length and I see no image where it appears truncated.

It is silly to look at that one image in isolation when in fact it's just one of a series showing him rolling around and the series clearly shows his right knee protrudes out from the open ended pants...

Jeff's legs are visible from multiple viewpoints in the same SEQUENCE of images that this still is taken from…

The other images clearly show his thighs are the SAME LENGTH…

Images taken before and after the shot you are referring to show the same features from different views.

Here is an image sequence of Bauman taken seconds BEFORE the image you refer to. GET THAT? BEFORE.

We have a sequence of images of Bauman seconds before the picture you are misinterpreting. The temporally preceding images taken less than 5 seconds after the blast show Bauman with calves destroyed, IDENTICAL injuries to all later pictures and full length thighs of equal length.

...and then there are more images from the Carlos series that ALSO show full length thighs.

You ignore all the other images before and after in time and from multiple views that ALL contradict your interpretation of one image. ONE image out of an extended sequence that can only be interpreted your way if ALL THE OTHER IMAGES ARE DELIBERATELY IGNORED.

NO , WRONG. You are dealing with MULTIPLE IMAGES of the same person…

Greg McKee
Actually even if I couldn't identify his right knee in that ONE pic (though I can see it and I'm sure you'll try to contradict my interpretation due to your motional investment and fixation) The situation would be no different to the front-on road runner picture where no tail is visible.
Initially when commenting to you I hadn't even noticed the details of Jeffs right knee in the single image because they are not important in image analysis. 3D spatial geometry is best worked out through cross referencing multiple views of a known object as I have previously explained. But by studying his right knee in other pictures I noticed features also in the picture you are fixated on. From what I've read your total argument is that Jeff has no right knee because it is obscured in A SINGLE IMAGE of a whole sequence of images, just as Road runner's tail is obscured in a SINGLE IMAGE of a whole sequence of images. You certainly haven't taken a rational route in insisting " 2 pics that prove this was staged".

You seem to think if you can't see something IN A SINGLE PICTURE it's no longer there and never was AND you have the attitude that if there is one image that is ambiguous and taken in isolation WITHOUT reference to all the other images that show full thighs, and you somehow think if you might win a point and I can't 100% prove the presence of the right knee from a SINGLE photo then somehow in your mind YOU WIN you've proven an expert wrong and trumpets will fanfare and somehow Jeff never had a right knee...
There might be another image in the sequence where jeff's right knee is 100% not visible and you would be 100% right that his knee is not visible in that picture at all or easily inferred but that would STILL not prove your belief correct because the other images exist anyway.. In such a situation It still wouldn't matter if I couldn't prove the existence of his right knee in that one picture or his left knee height was equally ambiguous... It's the SAME situation as the road Runner tail and you would STILL look like an idiot for basing an argument on ONE picture.

I can't 100% prove this woman doesn't a foot on the end of her arm and discolouration of her skin but it's not rational to get emotionally invested as you have done in these threads and insist she has an armfoot because it looks that way to a lazy observer in a single image Anyway I'll set up my work computer and see if I have time later to mark up a high res image


Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee Greg said, "Anyway I'll set up my work computer and see if I have time later to mark up a high res image"

That's all you needed to say. The rest of your post is superfluous. If psychoanalyzing me floats your boat, have at it. You can be as condescending as you wish. It does nothing to advance your argument.

Allow me to (again) clarify a point you don't seem to grasp. My claim is that the photo shows Jeff's real right stump, cut off above the knee.
Implicit in the claim is the allegation that the 'knee' we see in other photos is a fake gore prosthetic.

There's no proof that the 'knee' we see in other photos is real. Yet you continually anchor your argument on these other images. That makes no sense. If you want to use those other photos as evidence, you would first have to prove the knee in those other images is real.

For the record, my claim is not based on this single photo as you keep alleging. I can also prove that Jeff is wearing prosthetics in photos where both thighs appear equal in length.


Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee Maybe I can save you some time and effort. If your plan is to point to what you say is a visible piece of Jeff's right knee and declare, "See, his knee is there so his left knee must be a 'thigh height' off the ground", that isn't going to work. Here's why.

All along you've been saying his right knee is hidden. The question I asked repeatedly and you never answered was, "What visual cues in the photo tell you his left knee is a 'thigh hight' off the ground?" You kept insisting his knee was off the ground but never explained what visual cues told you so. All you had to go on were your assumptions based on other photos.

In your last post you said, "Initially when commenting to you I hadn't even noticed the details of Jeffs right knee in the single image…"

You can't now claim something you've recently 'discovered' is the visual cue I was asking for previous to your 'discovery'.

So I'll ask again, what cues told you his knee was off the ground BEFORE you 'discovered' that his knee was visible. Inquiring minds want to know.

Greg McKee
The details I saw immediately originally as I've mentioned multiple times is that the base of his tibia is obviously more than a calf/thigh width/height above the ground. That can be determined by MEASUREMENT of the dangling strips of skin that still don't reach the ground and comparing that vertical measurement to the measured width of his thigh and calf. Since the phone camera is higher than jeff significantly the hanging vertical dimension is slightly foreshortened. By direct measurement optical illusions can be avoided. I can see from your earlier comments you have negligible comprehension of perspective . That is why I asked to see examples of your drawings and see if you have ANY form of mental processing of 3 point perspective.
I often come across spatially incompetent persons such as yourself who are similarly dogmatically argumentative and FIXATE as you do on initially ambiguous details. getting them to draw something reveals their inability to see reality objectively and quantitatively.
As usual for any image analysis the logical requirement is to first find the highest resolution unblurred , uncompressed and NON interpolated of the image possible. The details I suspected you were misinterpreting from the degraded image became clearly what I suspected in the higher res images.

As is typical I noted you hadn't once linked to a higher res non-degraded version of the image. That sort of thing NEVER occurs to guys like you. If it had you would have linked to one.. It's no different to chemtards who insist "Airliners never left long trails in the sky prior to 1997" but it NEVER occurs to them to actually LOOK for images older than the date they specify. Their confirmation bias is exactly that , they never think of the falsifiability of belief, like saying 'all swans are white', never thinking to look for images of black swans.

Since his left leg was ripped up the rear into two strips and his hand in the image is holding the lower portion of his left rear thigh together, but the lower portion of the strip drapes from the end of his fingers and extends down to the ground by a full thigh height. It was the obvious height of the draping flap of skin from his thigh and the creasing where the strip contacts the ground on the rough textured dark grey stained ground Plus the hanging flesh from his tibia that shows the height. I also realised immediately that you were far too intellectually lazy to even THINK to look at higher resolution images and you had mistaken the shredded strips hanging from his tibia as a shadow.
So basically I had noticed the detail that you had misinterpreted , anticipated what it really was and confirmed and seen clearly what it actually was in higher detailed images.
I saw the ambient occlusion from the area to the right of the lower peak of the paper and initially thought that was strips of hanging skin from Jeff's Left shin reaching low to the ground.
However by looking at the far left apex of Jeffs knee it became obvious that Jeff no longer HAD enough skin on the inner region of his shin to account for the image EVEN IF you were right and his left knee was near the ground. All that skin is missing where the white and pink region is visible to the left of his exposed tibia.
The volume of material there only makes CONSISTENT sense if it's Jeff's right knee and wound. Closer examination shows the overlap between left and right knee and the fact that jeff's flesh around the left kneecap has no visible protruberances and is still smooth whilst his right knee is burnt and torn means the detail on the ground where the knee region overlaps the paper exactly matches the detail on his RIGHT knee.
It's entirely consistent with the image sequence of his FULL LENGTH THIGHS that was taken BEFORE this image and the image of his right thigh taken IMMEDIATELY AFTER..

I'm still LAUGHING at your sense of reality that thinks it's fine that Jeff was wearing a prosthetic leg for a whole sequence of images, then in ONE image taken a fraction of a second AFTERWARDS his prosthetic leg miraculously disappears to NOWHERE and the design of his pants completely changes, then a split second later the design of his pants reverts back to how they were previously, and the prosthetic leg re-materialises.

I can only assume this must involve Captain Kirk and the crew of the starship enterprise that are using their matter transporter to have prosthetic leg be present for an image sequence in the immediate aftermath of a supposedly heatless forceless explosion that singes multiple people's hair, burns and shreds clothing and makes prosthetic limbs seemingly disappear at first glance if you squint a bit for a single frame of ONE PHOTO them re-materialise in full view in every image afterwards. Wow, You know Itchy has totally convinced me the roadrunner has no tail......

Itchy Boy
@ Greg McKee Right from the start you had your preconceived conclusion. You must have either based your conclusion solely on assumptions as I explained OR on some visual cues you INITIALLY saw in the photo. That's why I'm interested in the visual cues BEFORE you had time to concoct your 'measuring' and 'knee is visible' ploys.

Why won't you provide a short, simple answer? Is it because that leaves nowhere to hide the fact that you are shooting blanks? All you do is fire off yet another long winded diatribe heavily dosed with condescension and bafflegab, then you'll claim you complied with my request. Don't you see how threadbare that tactic has become after a half dozen iterations in this thread alone? You have failed to show how you initially knew Jeff's left knee was off the ground.

You have failed to show how you initially knew the skin flap was over the thigh.
You have failed to prove the mangled legs in other images are real.
You have failed to comprehend why other images do not support your conclusion.
You have failed to debunk the claim.

Now, I have a confession to make. I AM certifiably insane. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I have asked you over and over for a short description of the cues. And I keep getting the same result.

To prove I'm insane, I'll ask you again… "Pretty please with sugar on top, would you give us a SINGLE POST with a SHORT, CLEAR description in LAYMAN's terms of the visual cues. NOTHING BUT THE CUES." Specifically the INITIAL cues that right from the start told you his left knee was off the ground and that the flap was over the thigh.

Kindly save your invective for a subsequent separate post.
Let us evaluate your answer without all the clutter.

Itchy Boy
@Darwin999 Thanks. Greg's comments about image resolution are a boondoggle.
He made his assertions from the very beginning before I pressed him for the visual cues.
If he initially saw any cues in the photo that told him the knee was elevated and the flap was convex over the leg, he would have seen them in the original photo and pointed them out. He would have been able to describe the cues the first time I asked.

Even in a lo-rez image we can clearly see that:
- Jeff's bottom thigh is parallel to the ground but the top thigh is angled downward towards the ground. If his bottom thigh was full length, the top thigh would have to be more parallel to the ground.
- the back of Jeff's fingers are resting between his thighs so by definition they are 'thigh height'. The top thigh continues its downward slope well past the fingers so the inside of his upper knee has to be significantly lower than the back of his fingers. In other words, significantly lower than 'thigh height'.
- if you zoom in on the thighs you can see Jeff's bottom (right) thigh is in shadow close to the ground and highlighted from above. The shadow runs down from his buttock in line with his thigh but then crosses over from the back of his thigh to the front of his thigh. This means for that span from back to front, the part that is in shadow must be next to the ground. That can only be possible if we're seeing the end of his stump.

There are also some unrelated visual cues that tell me things.
This photo was taken at least about 2:30 or longer from the 'blast'. Mery Daniel, the Black lady that was next to Jeff has been taken away. A Tang photo shows her strapped in a gurney at 3:10 after the 'blast'. Several EMT's were there and could not have missed Jeff.

That's significant because perhaps the most striking thing about Jeff in this photo is that he has no tourniquets. Jeff is visibly the most grievously injured 'victim' on the scene yet nobody's paying any attention to him. Not the guy in the blue pants, not the guy in the camo pants, not his friend with the red hair and jacket.

Jeff didn't need any tourniquets or attention because he was not injured.


Greg McKee
I did see that Jeffs knee was a leg thickness above the ground in the original image you linked to.
Yes I made assertions from the very beginning. I'm highly practiced and skilled at interpreting images. I do it for a living. I create images from scratch too.
You don't get it dude. I'm an expert at animation and 3dimensional spatial geometry and study photos like this all the time. I generate accurate CGi 3D models of animals from photos alone. I don't need to use photogrammetry software to do so as I'm expert at seeing and interpreting dimensional detail.
YOU AREN'T. You're an ignorant kid or a very unwise inexperienced adult. I suspect from your attitude your about 19 or younger.

In prosthetics we go over autopsy images and trauma crash injuries supplied by doctors and police although you can check out ogrish and other similar sites
Back in my uni days I was hanging out with the Police divers and studying images of shark attack victims, people who wash up on beaches after weeks rotting at sea, remains of people in dams, run over by speed boats. We look at closeups of motorcyclists and pedestrians run over by trucks etc. We have access to large medical libraries of thousands of different injuries and diseases etc I studied zoology and performed numerous dissections. I have first aid and lifesaving certificates and have extensive direct experience with suicide victims, car crash victims, burns victims.
I was actually discussing your comments with my prosthetics colleague Damian Martin (Oscar for Fury Road) on Monday. He laughed for minutes especially when I showed him the comments you guys made about the speed of application of complex prosthetics and your idea that Jeff's right thigh ends half the length of the left one in a sort of stocking. He said you guys must get your ideas from "Mrs Doubtfire" and couldn't believe what we suspect is almost an adult (you) is so incompetent at looking at images and understanding what they show.
"Bet they can only draw stick figures" he said. Yup I agree "

Jeff's bottom thigh is parallel to the ground but the top thigh is angled downward towards the ground. If his bottom thigh was full length, the top thigh would have to be more parallel to the ground." His Top thigh IS parallel to the ground.
You don't understand PERSPECTIVE nor temporal spatial geometry Here's UPS_902 cargo jet
What angle relative to ground level is it flying? climbing or diving or horizontal? "
The top thigh continues its downward slope well past the fingers so the inside of his upper knee has to be significantly lower than the back of his fingers."
It isn't a downward slope. His leg is at a different angle to the line of bricks if viewed in plan view but that's all. Your comments are once again proving YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BASIC PERSPECTIVE.

"The shadow runs down from his buttock in line with his thigh but then crosses over from the back of his thigh to the front of his thigh"
His right thigh pants bottom closer towards his knee is covered by a large flap of flesh that extends all the way to the blob of meat near his right buttock. That is the remains of his calf and ankle. Jeff's right foot is at bottom left of screen. There is occlusion from the remains of his left calf. You also don't understand light sources and bounce light, global illumination, diffuse specularity etc. In fact you don't seem to understand any subject and you are continuing to make a fool of yourself.
You are so desperate to ignore reality and save face yet the only way to do that is to LEARN and think logically.
Your scenario makes ZERO SENSE and you need to admit that before you can regain any dignity.
It's so childishly absurd that you keep insisting that the picture would show a guy with no prosthetics on when the images taken imediately before and immediately after show his right knee.
Just admit you were an idiot dude and move on.
You fucked up, you were brainwashed by a conspiracy blog because you are exceeding gullible about any conspiracy theory and have no skeptical thinking skills
People are just thinking you are a bigger dickhead the more you try to sink your heels in and hold your ignorant ground. That doesn't make you tough or cool and better than the smarty pants and know it alls you so despise , just stubborn and resistant to learning and understanding.

"Jeff is visibly the most grievously injured 'victim' on the scene yet nobody's paying any attention to him."
Actually no.
He has wounds below the knee and no visible arterial spraying and he is very active rolling around. Limb trauma ABOVE the knee is far more serious due to femoral artery damage regardless of what people like you with no first aid training think.
Any first responders would check people with thigh injuries first like Krystle Campbell. First aid responders are taught to check out the quiet ones first.
Sure it would have been great for Jeff to be treated earlier but responders need to prioritise AND need to have gear they can use.
Why do you think people WEREN'T running to get constrictive bandages for Jeff? If someone attends to Jeff and they don't have anything to use then it's not much point standing next to him saying "there there you'll be fine".
He obviously DID get constrictive bandages and brisk transport to medical care.
You whole argument is from incredulity about subjects you have zero knowledge and experience of.


Itchy Boy
OK thanks. I'm guessing that's the invective part I asked you to put in a separate post.

So your next post will be short and to the point right? It will be a brief description in layman's terms of what cues you saw in the original image that told you:
a) his knee was elevated
b) there's a flap over his leg

Even the dullest reader should be able to see through your shopworn tactics by now.

Either answer or be dismissed.


Itchy Boy
While awaiting Greg's answer, here is some context regarding his comments about the medical response.

Since 2004, emergency preparedness plans for the marathon included the possibility of a mass casualty event. The main medical tent was about 100 yards behind the finish line. Many of the personnel rushed to the scene as soon as they heard the 'blast'. They brought gurneys, flat boards and wheelchairs. Lots of blue gloves. But these people, trained and equipped for a mass casualty event apparently did not feel the need to bring any medical kits or supplies.

Everybody and their grandmother had tourniquets, many had multiple tourniquets on one limb. Loosely tied sweaters, belts, and shirts were used. People grabbed shirts from the Marathon Sports store to use as tourniquets. There were plenty of tourniquets, EMTs and civilian responders to go around. Yet Jeff is left to roll around and bleed out for well over 2 minutes or more.

The official narrative is that Carlos, immediately after the blast, ran across the street, jumped the barrier, rushed to Jeff's side, tore some cloth into strips and applied them as tourniquets. Presumably those are the strips of cloth we see caught in the wheels of the wheelchair. Fortunately, Carlos stopped to stand around for a couple of minutes and take a few snapshots before attending to Jeff's injuries.

Dr. Alan Panter, an emergency room doctor had also attended to Jeff'ss 'injuries' by this time. That's Panter's jacket covering Jeff. Jeff passes the finish line at about 6:30. Sometime before that we see Panter help hoist Jeff into the wheelchair. The only "constrictive bandages" we see on the ride is a loose white cloth which was applied by a runner who was allowed to enter the scene and the strips that Carlos is said to have applied. The ones dangling in the wheels, along with the hanging flesh Dr. Panter prepared for the "brisk transport to medical care".

Greg McKee (reply to Sharon Dorsett)
Actually no but that's wrong Sharon. There are thousands of victims of landmines who have both legs blown off and are often completely alone in remote areas that survive and manage to crawl back to their villages etc.

It's common that there is no arterial blood spraying from complete traumatic amputation as the blood vessels retract back up into the body and quiver and self seal. "commplete amputation may not bleed very much. The cut blood vessels may spasm, pull back into the injured part, and shrink. This slows or stops the bleeding. If there is bleeding, do the following:" Jeff would have gone into shock and the body redirects blood flow to major organs, reducing to extremities.

"Stupid bit of Tshirt" is not stupid when it's one of the easiest and effective lifesaving accessories available to first aid responders. The Boston first respinders were also throwing towels to each other as they are also very effective in stemming bleeding and making relatively sterile compressive bandages.
Perhaps you should do what I did many years ago as a surf life saver at Long Reef surf club and do a week long first aid course with St John's ambulance service and then do the regular refresher courses every couple of years so you get a clue about treating severe trauma injury from explosions, falling metal worksite amputation, shark attack, car accident etc etc

Greg McKee
We also have the REALITY that complex prosthesis cannot be applied in fractions of seconds. Hyper realism training involves prostheses that take long periods to apply and would never fool doctors or emergency staff, let alone the xrays and medical assessment personnel, yet Bauman and ALL the other victims WERE NOT amputees prior to the event anyway. Bauman and all the other scores of victims have highly detailed medical records. They were treated by real doctors and nurses and medics.
It is the highest form of delusional INSANITY to suggest all these hundreds of people were complicit in a conspiracy and would falsify vast quantities of medical records let alone the fact it makes no sense whatsoever to do so.
The young Richards girl WAS not an amputee prior to the event and her brother Martin was ALIVE seconds prior to the event and DEAD seconds after . These two kids were not crisis actors, they were school children who suffered horribly and your inability to grasp that and the ramifications of it and the impossibility of their whole school and relatives and school friends family being "in on it" indicates you have a very serious mental illness that needs to be treated.

Greg McKee
Prosthetics are pulled over clothing? Your amusing idea that jeff was wearing a sock over a short right thigh is simply delusional ... and that this imaginary prosthetic was removed for a single close up photo for no rational reason yet would obviously have to have been present for all the numerous shots before that moment and split seconds after... yet despite multiple camera angles from different viewpoints of members of the public there are no images of ANYONE carrying or applying prosthetics, a procedure that takes multiple people a LONG TIME and requires multiple stages of preparation.
People definitely don't apply seamless prosthetics in fractions of seconds OVER loose baggy clothing that result in the perfect execution of an explosives wound that trained medical experts recognise as 100% real, which is the case with ALL Boston injuries. Prosthetics are glued to skin. NOT to clothing.
His left thigh which we would assume you to believe is also a prosthetic shows ZERO evidence of a blend edge join ANYWHERE... on a leg covered in hair... that extends seemlessly to his bullocks.

Jeff's flap of skin from his left knee than extends downward and to the right past the id /credit card to the lump of flesh that appears to be the partial remains of his ankle skin has a continuous diffuse specular linear highlight that defines his edge. The section that ItchyBoy delusionally assumes to be bloody flat ground in front of a sealed ended sock has no ambient occlusion. Ie the end of the "sock" region of the image is BEHIND the red flap of skin, NOT over or above it.It is obvious to an astute and SANE observer that the picture simply shows Jeffs pants covered by a flap of skin, NOT that his pants have a nonsensical sealed sock end that miraculously don't leave any evidence of ambient occlusion.
Additionally the texture detail on the flap of skin is consistent with a flap of skin draped over a cylindrical form.. ie thigh and is NOT consistent with a textured area of ground, particularly because it exhibits no textural perspective foreshortening ( the characteristic of textured areas to indicate the angle they are relative to a camera)

Itchy Boy
The 'sock' is actually his pants. I used that term because I wanted to focus on the right prosthesis. But we can see Jeff's left prosthesis in our photo. Jeff is wearing a pair of custom fitted amputee pants. The prosthetics fit over his pants. You can see the garter device that's holding the left prosthesis onto his stump. These are ready-made, just slide on and attach. A fake leg costs upwards of $1500. Dr. Panter's real job was to make sure it looked real enough for the photo-op. After attending to Jeff and other 'injured' we don't see a spec of blood on him as he's holding an oxygen mask to Kristle on the way to the medical tent.

We see no evidence of outer pants which would be visibly damaged like all the other shredded pants we saw.

This is what the Thorndike photo sequence unmistakably shows. Three seconds after the 'blast', before the smoke had even cleared, Christian Williams was handling Jeff's right 'leg'. He reaches behind his hoodie and pulls out a black strap which he tries to put around Jeff's 'leg'. He fails and Jeff rolls over onto his right side. At that point the prosthesis disappears from the visual record. The next time we see it is when Jeff is in the wheelchair.

The probability is that the prosthesis was damaged and Jeff had to wait for something to be done about it. Before Panter and Carlos put Jeff in the chair, they're seen 'working' on him. We can't see exactly what they're doing but the obvious presumption is that they were attaching the right prosthesis.

In the photo with the hanging frills, what Greg claims is Jeff's knee protruding from his pants is actually a 'flesh ball' that Erika Brannok pushed in front of Jeff's stump for the photo. She's the woman looking towards the camera. ydafckdoihave2have1 latest video exposes her uncovered well healed stump.

We're told Christian was thrown to the ground with near fatal injuries to his legs requiring multiple surgeries and his right hand was 'de-gloved'. Its simply impossible for anyone in that condition to be sitting up and helping a stranger in 3 seconds. Shock, adrenaline nor anything else could account for it. Yet the visual record proves that's what actually took place in the first few seconds. That is proof in itself that the event was staged.

Greg McKee
Jeff Bauman had legs BEFORE the bombing. Martin Richards was a living kid and he DIED AT THE SCENE. His sister Jane had legs, she lost her lower left leg. You are just proving with every post that you are sick and need psychiatric treatment.

Look carefully at Jane Richards hair and her living brother Martin. Notice her glossy combed hair? Notice her intact jeans and glossy hair?

Now look carefully at her HAIR and ripped clothes. There is only one thing that can turn hair like that instantly and it's not hairspray, it's intense heat. Jeff Bauman and many of the other victims had their hair and clothes scorched in the same manner. Their clothes were not scorched before the blasts, their hair was not scorched before the blasts, their limbs were not injured before the blasts. These were real bombs with real victims.

Greg McKee
LOL what a crock dude. You are a truly sick messed up moron but you are so delusional it's funny
There is no prosthesis. No evidence WHATSOEVER for a prosthesis of any kind.

"The 'sock' is actually his pants. " No, you specifically said they were enclosing the end of a short stump. Don't try to weasel out of the deep hole of delusional bullshit you dug for yourself.

No, a prosthesis would not be fitted over anyone's pants and a prosthesis that would look anything like the injuries at boston COULD NOT be fitted in fractions of a second as implied by your delusional ignorant assertions.
There is no garter device holding any prothesis on his left leg. His left leg is SEAMLESS all the way to his buttock. The very photo you are fixated on demonstrates that very clearly. No garter, nothing, just a real leg with a real injury at the knee

"next time we see it is when Jeff is in the wheelchair." Nope

You are so PATHETIC getting your childish ideas from youtube videos.
GROW UP and go experience the real world! I bet you have never once left your home country, let alone barely left your state.

"Its simply impossible for anyone in that condition to be sitting up and helping a stranger in 3 seconds."
You don't know ANYTHING whatsoever about how people react in traumatic situations. People have near fatal injuries all the time and still manage to perform extraordinary feats precisely because the injuries were NOT FATAL.
NOT FATAL.... can you grasp that ?
Like people who have near fatal injuries from sharks yet still manage to paddle after and catch waves and drag themselves to shore. Or people who save their comrades in war yet are shot multiple times themselves.
I've escaped near fatal accidents with near fatal injuries many times and still get to do awesome things because those accidents and injuries didn't kill me. They came very close.. but close is not enough.

Itchy Boy
@Greg McKee You have consistently refused my simple request. Readers of this thread may draw their own conclusions from that. You have shown no proof that Jeff's 'injured' legs are real. You only assume they are. Based on that assumption you refer to "before and after" photos where his right 'knee' is visible as proof that he has one. That is not logical. Particularly because the evidence I presented directly implies that the knee in all the other photos is a prosthetic. Independent proof in the other photos corroborates that Jeff is wearing prosthetics. Yet even to the end you maintained reliance on your assumptions based on other photos. You have employed several logical fallacies. - "appeal to authority" - with you being the authority, no less. eg. "...I'm expert at seeing and interpreting dimensional detail." - "ad hominem" - eg. "You're an ignorant kid or a very unwise inexperienced adult." - "argumentum ad populum" - validating your argument because someone agrees with you - eg. "He (Damian) said you guys must get your ideas from 'Mrs Doubtfire…' ". You said, "I did see that Jeffs knee was a leg thickness above the ground in the original image you linked to." That is tacit admission that your comments regarding image resolution were a boondoggle. You have not answered my oft repeated simple request. Only when pressed did you conjure up your 'measurement' and 'the knee is visible' ruses. Your assertion that his right thigh is parallel to the ground simply leaves me speechless. You have failed to debunk the evidence. After dealing with you, I need a long hot shower with lots and lots of soap. You are dismissed.

Itchy Boy
Honest debunkers perform a valuable service exposing false arguments and mistakes that truthers sometimes make. But the disingenuous 'debunkers' that know the truth and work to keep it hidden are the lowest of the low. Simply put, they are sociopaths. Whether they do it for money or other reasons, they are traitors to the human race. They don't suffer from cognitive dissonance. They know exactly what they're doing. Fortunately, they are easy to expose. Nobody can debunk the truth.

Itchy Boy
Despite being dismissed, Greg McKee has attempted to make a few more posts but they've been blocked. I have saved this thread and will post it somewhere including Greg's blocked comments so that he may have his final say and people may further see how his mind works.

Greg was blocked by the YT channel at this point but I received these notifications.


Greg McKee
Lame kid, I have answered your question many times and given you many avenues of image detail to explore and you have addressed NONE of them and insanely referred to youtube videos of other idiots agreeing with your beliefs. You insisted there was a sock when in fact Jeff simply has a flap of skin over his right leg . it is 100% consistent with the other pictures. there is no ambient occlusion in the region you think a stump comes to an end. The area of flap of skin you think is the ground does NOT match the detail of the ground nor does the perspective match. The detail of his right knee is in the picture. You have proven many times you don't understand perspective. You cannot draw, You are not logical and you have no interest whatsoever in learning the principles of image analysis that I have endeavoured to explain to you. Which you resisted and tried to dispute every step of the way.

Greg McKee
You ARE debunked asshole. Your whole argument is that in a SINGLE PICTURE out of a whole sequence of pictures of the same subject taken seconds apart, at a certain angle it is hard to see baumans right leg clearly and if you squint or only look at a low res posterised image it almost looks as if he has a stump covered in a sock. Your assertion relies on the ridiculous requirement of a miraculously disappearing prosthetic that jumps in and out of visibility and jumps in and out of pants in split seconds. You have made the most childish unintelligent argument I have ever read. Dude YOU LOST and you are a petulant imbecile. I don't care that I'm making ad-homs, you DESERVE THEM because you are a despicable subnormal human oblivious and insensitive to real human suffering . If you are ever badly injured I hope your only attendant will be a fellow truther who will sneer and call you a faker and leave you to suffer in agony

Greg McKee
You are the ones who deny reality and abuse genuine victims of tragedies , just like the sick truthers who try to ring up grieving parents whose children have been murdered to abuse them!­58a96a54fc4e

Itchy Boy
@Sharon Dorsett I'm not sure what you mean about his fingers in a slit. I think he's simply holding on to the left fake because it was never attached properly. The right fake was removed from the scene to be repaired or replaced.

At the top of his left thigh is a little silver/grey square with a black dot. Looks to me like a garter type device. I think that's the spring you mentioned. Looks like another one by his ass crack that isn't attached to the fake.

Regarding that thing Carlos is holding. Carlos has said in interviews that it was an artery, and that's what we're supposed to think going by the 2nd wheelchair pic shot from the side. But in the wheelchair pic shot from the front, you can see it stretches from the top of his right thigh over and around the left. Who would do that with a real artery? According to Wiki, he's holding what a tourniquet that had unravelled to keep it away from the wheels. Of course that's bollocks too. If it was a tourniquet, it wouldn't have been wrapped that way. The part Carlos is holding could have just sat in Jeff's lap.

Also in the side view, look at the difference in colour between Jeff's 'knees'. That's not pant material. I think the original right fake was damaged and the only replacement they had was made for a dark skinned person. Haha! It doesn't look so dark in the front view, but that's probably due to less ambient occlusion.

Greg argues that prosthesis take time to apply. Normally that's true, especially when it has to remain viable for many takes of a scene. But with Jeff, they only had to look OK for the wheelchair ride which couldn't have lasted more than 30 seconds or so. They didn't have to be a perfect fit either. For the ride, Jeff covered the joint with Panter's jacket. If you zoom in on the section just below the white bandage, you'll see some sort of 'hook' graphic etched into the 'skin'. Doesn't look like a tatoo.

We have video of Jeff just past the finish line at about 6:30 after the pyro. We can see the clock which has been put to the curb. So he wasn't on the sidewalk for 20 minutes, it was more like 6 minutes.

We're told the shrapnel all stayed close to the ground, hence only leg injuries. But the lid of the cooker was found on a rooftop. Go figure.

In a still frame from video of the 'explosion' you can see several hot spots, not just one as you would with a real bomb. One of the hot spots was near the barrier, to blow the banner out toward the street for a 'realistic' effect. The initial white smoke went straight up instead of outwards in all directions. Then darker smoke is seen coming down from above to cover up final preparation of the 'injured'.

Check out "The Boston Unbombing" by Changing Reason. He thoroughly covers the types of prostheses available, the motives of participants and other aspects that have received little coverage.

Greg McKee
Really dude, your ignorant opinion is worthless anyway. There's me, and oscar winning prosthetics experts Damian martin and Dave Elsey who think you are delusional and retarded plus Saving Private Ryan prosthetics experts Connor O'sullivan and Colin Ware know the same too, plus military medics and surgeons as we have seen in above links. The only people who go along with your delusional beliefs are stay at home losers and untermensch like darwin999. You sad sick conspiritards can type away in your fantasy world all you like but you are simply pathetic.

Greg McKee
LOL, your ignorant arrogance about "dismissing" people as if anyone gives a shit ! Did you wave your magic conspiritard septre with royal magnificence and say aloud "begone vexing spirit, my mind has not the strength to ponder your complex concepts to one such as myself so talentless and virginal to the concepts of perspective and basic reason" .. Kid, you are too much of an arrogant stubborn simpleton to understand the simple explanations I made and your interpretation of the photo you misinterpreted is so totally laughable ! Your concept of the magical instantly disappearing prosthetic is hilarious. Kid, grow up, get a life, go experience the world, get an education and keep your worthless ignorant opinions to yourself.

Greg McKee
BTW I wouldn't be so rude but your total lack of ability to recognise and empathise with genuine human suffering and grief is despicable beyond words.You are both very damaged totally evil human beings. It's very obvious you and Darwin have mental illnesses and at least forms of autism. The only way you will ever grasp what happened at Boston and Melbourne and Paris etc is if you leave the cloistered microenvironments you live in and experience the real world and experience some genuine suffering firsthand. I suspect you'd actually just sneer or laugh if you saw someone traumatically injured.

Greg McKee (reply to Sharon Dorsett)
Hi sharon, yes you are WRONG. Very Wrong and very ignorant. That is a real leg damaged by a bomb. You cannot have a prosthethis held in place by a spring. Look at the high resolution versions of the picture. There is no join to any stump. You cannot buy a perfectly molded fake leg for $1500 in a store. It would have to be glued to skin and the interior be molded from a lifecast of any existing stump and the leg in all videos are PERFECT. Exactly correct anatomical detail in every aspect. You guys are displaying a naive "Mrs Doubtfire" simplistic fantasy version of prosthetics. The irony of so many people getting their idea of prosthetics from the movie "Mr's Doubtfire" and its apparent slip on slip off ease of prosthetics is the fact the actual prosthetics in the movie took 4 hours to apply each morning by Greg Cannom's team. I'm experienced in these things Itchy Boy IS NOT experienced in any way. I did prosthetic and creature effects for Alien Covenant, Starwars, The Matrix, Peter Pan, Unbroken, Nim's Island, Farscape, Fury Road and numerous tv and adverts. My colleagues did Saving private Ryan and Hacksaw ridge , Fury and any other war or gore film you can name. You guys have an infants fantasy idea how such work is done. I do it every project. Sorry but you guys are wrong and delusional

Greg McKee (reply to Sharon Dorsett)
There is wounds behind peoples clothing tears. The shrapnel was mostly ball bearings and small panel nails yet you are looking at highly compressed phone images further compressed by youtube algorythmns. There are plenty of close up pictures of the nails and ball bearings at the scene yet they are so small you need a CLOSE UP camera because they will be SUB-PIXEL in a phone cmera image taken at thoe distances the pictures are at that show victims. Wounds are visible on all victims if you understand what such wounds look like, many subpixel in size. Go stab yourself deeply with a knife into your thigh to the bone through your jeans, then get someone two hundred feet away to take a photo with a phone. It will then be obvious to people like itchy boy looking at that photo you are not injured even though you are because it will NOT look like a hollywood wound that you guys get your ideas from. The bomb wouldn't move the glasses and bottles because they are BEHIND people and above the table protected aerodynamically in multiple dimensions like a bike rider behind a truck slipstreaming in its wake.

Greg McKee (reply to Sharon Dorsett)
The slit you refer to is the tear in his leg that extended all the way to where his ankle used to be. "And what about the surrounding areas that are not even scorched or any damage done to areas that were just as close to the fire cracker?" The bomb is not spherical and has an uneven distribution of blast . The scorching is entirely consistent with normal ieds. They build up pressure untill a region of metal in the imperfectly manufactured pressed cylinder that is weakest tears open. That is little different to seeing a balloon burst in slow motion. There is never a uniform shattering into equal sized parts but non uniform scattering of uneven size pieces and non uniform blast. The humans bodies closest to the blast absorbed the majority of shrapnel. some managed to escape through the narrow spaces between people and their limbs which is why most people suffered lower leg and foot injuries "not even any dust on that desk inside said building?" LOL so you can see how much dust is on the inside of the buildings from a low res image? Sure..... LOL "How can it be that it tears into clothes but their is no wounds and it isn't strong enough to rip the blinds where the window is smashed?" Why would it rip the blinds? The window is shattered by the concussive shockwave of the blast. it's a WAVE of air movement, ie the air pressure pushes the window initially inwards, and since air is ELASTIC, the pressurised air inside the building pushes back OUTWARDS again on the cracked glass. Push on a bike pump rapidly that has the nozzle blocked. it PUSHES BACK elastically.

Itchy Boy
I mentioned before that we have proof of fake gore prosthetics independent of the photo in question here. Here it is in a short video by CitizenCSI. Greg comments on it. I would ask viewers who put store in Greg's comments, "why does the whole model fit very closely, except for the right leg?"

Greg McKee
Hi Itchy boy. Once AGAIN you demonstrate your EXTREME IGNORANCE of basic anatomy. Jeff's legs are exactly the correct orientation and the pelvic gap is 100% correct for Bauman. You guys are SO DUMB and SO IGNORANT it is breathtaking. This exact video and absurdly ignorant assertion myself and others covered in detail on Metabunk

Greg has responded to my last post about the CitizenCSI video. Here's part of what he said. "…Jeff's legs are exactly the correct orientation and the pelvic gap is 100% correct for Bauman…This exact video and absurdly ignorant assertion myself and others covered in detail on Metabunk". (remove spaces in the link)

Part of that thread has been scrubbed. In a Thorndike photo, Trailblazer (Metabunk senior member) was asked to locate Jeff's hip joints. TrailBlazer created a gif to do so. The red dots represent the balls of the femur. What he didn't realize was that his diagram proved Jeff to be anatomically incorrect. He cut a pelvis from a medical site, sized it and overlayed it on Jeff. But he didn't include the entire femur. If he had done so, the femurs would be far too long. No amount of foreshortening of Jeff's legs in the photo could account for it. When the goof was discovered the pertinent posts were deleted.

Here's TrailBlazer's diagram:

Here's what it would have looked like if he had included the entire femur. In this diagram the femurs haven't been aligned exactly to the angle of Jeff's thighs but the ball joints are very close to where TrailBlazer put them. It's instantly obvious that the femurs are way too long because the pelvis has been sized in order to get the hip joints to line up with the fake legs. The leg that we see is a prosthetic and its to the right of Jeff's real stump.

Greg McKee (reply to Sharon Dorsett)
",blood would have been flowing as long as his heart was pumping and no amount of t-shirt would have stopped it. " Actually that is completely WRONG. IED victims who suffer instant amputations usually DON'T bleed out since torn blood vessels in the legs retract and undergo spasmodic fibrillation self sealing often for a period of MINUTES with no visible arterial blood loss. That is why landmine victims often manage to crawl all the way home alone in remote regions of Vietnam, Cambodia etc. The body does not just let itself bleed to death. In the event of severe trauma, there is massive release of local vasoconstrictive factors which causes vascular spasm. This will stop almost all bleeding immediately, at least in the larger, muscular vessels, but only lasts a short while. However, the adrenals also dump into the circulation a large amount of catecholamines, which also act as vasoconstrictors to prevent bleeding. This lasts quite a while but is never complete, and acts as a buffer mechanism while more permanent solutions are found to stop the bleeding (mainly behavioural on the part of the person, be it elevation, compression, amputation, etc) Try actually learning about the subject rather than spreading your ignorance

Itchy Boy
Normally I wouldn't link to Met-a-Skunk but in this case I thought it appropriate because a) it was in Greg's reply, but b) more importantly, it proves they're not above deleting posts that they can't debunk.

Greg McKee
You have no interest in reality. The video you linked to WAS 100% debunked. "No amount of foreshortening of Jeff's legs in the photo could account for it. " ROFLMAO. Because it was a STILL IMAGE, not a 3D skeletal model you IMBECILE. The point of that 2D overlay was to illustrate the WIDTH because Jon B did not understand basic anatomy of hip and femur pivot position vs femur bone orientation, and ONCE AGAIN you demonstrate you don't understand perspective

Greg McKee
" What he didn't realize was that his diagram proved Jeff to be anatomically incorrect." LOL. Trailblazer overlayed the image with the hip joints in the correct position relative to Jeffs image. It's irrelevant that the femurs don't match in length since the xray was not of a person in Bauman's pose!! ROFLMAO!! He was just showing a moron who understood nothing about anatomy an image of a skeletal hip and where the pivot points are relative to the rest of it. People don't tend to have their hip xrays taken when they left their knees close to their chest!! You guys are so astoundingly stupid it is breathtaking. The thread was later cleaned up so the proper skeletal overlay could be focussed on and so that retards like itchyboy didn't fixate on trailblazer not finding an xray of people in positions they never have xrays taken in. It's like having a tree top mounted cctv camera view of some tyre tracks and a top view of a parked car and someone identifies the type of car and shows an image of a front view of that make that shows the features are a match . Morons like you then argue that the camera angle is different so the picture is no good, completely not understanding the use of datum points in comparative image analysis.

Itchy Boy

With regard to TrailBlazer's diagram, Greg has responded and I think his response deserves to be heard and addressed. Here, in part, is what he said.
"…Trailblazer overlayed the image with the hip joints in the correct position relative to Jeffs image. It's irrelevant that the femurs don't match in length since the xray was not of a person in Bauman's pose!!…"

"The thread was later cleaned up so the proper skeletal overlay could be focussed on and so that retards like itchyboy didn't fixate on trailblazer not finding an xray of people in positions they never have xrays taken in."

The most pertinent part of Greg's comment is "The thread was later cleaned up…". That eliminates any doubt that posts were indeed deleted. They had no choice but to delete TrailBlazer's faux pas.

It doesn't matter that the xray is not in the same pose. We can mentally turn the pelvis forward 90 degrees around the ball joints so that the xray Would be in Jeff's pose. The apparent length of the femurs would not change. They would still be way too long as the other pelvis diagram with full length femurs illustrates.

The skeletal overlay 'debunk' was flawed for reasons too long to explain here. But, flawed or not, it doesn't negate what TrailBlazer's simple diagram reveals. Even more revealing was the fact they needed to 'clean up' so that readers wouldn't be confused by being exposed to the truth.

Here's a diagram where the pelvis was scaled so that the left femur would fit Jeff's thigh. The left ball joint is in the same position as TrailBlazer's diagram. But the right ball joint no longer fits with the right leg. Instead, it lines up with what CitizenCSI called the 'black device', just like the 3D model's leg. The 'black device' is the end of Jeff's real stump as we see in our original photo.

Greg McKee
What utter nonsense you wrote. It's like you've been trained by and working for the Веб-бригады "We can mentally turn the pelvis forward 90 degrees around the ball joints so that the xray Would be in Jeff's pose. The apparent length of the femurs would not change. " The femurs length in an IMAGE would change. You are not grasping basic perspective foreshortening dude or DELIBERATELY obfuscating . Jeff's femurs are NOT at 90degrees (perpendicular) to the camera. The photographic sequence of Jeff shows his legs are NOT at 90 degrees to camera yet you are insisting his legs are faked because the thigh length doesn't match a flat image of a person flying flat on an xray table. X ray pictures are taken with the legs at 90 degrees to the imaging equipment. The last picture you included is childish beyond words. Either you are taking the piss, are completely mad or поздравления товарищ, вы помогаете Родине, распространяя подозрение по детским ерундой доверчивых теоретиков заговора западных. The metabunk thread completely proved your assertions are nonsense. Trailblazer as a senior member simply deleted his post to keep the overall thread clearer since the 3D skeleton overlay viewed through a matching long lens proves conclusively that the image of Jeff is 100% consistent with normal human limb positions. Stop trying to push your childish paranoid delusional beliefs. You have been proved 100% WRONG in everything you have written. The delicious irony of you two retards blocking me and hiding my comments then complaining that debunkers hosts are no longer visible on a metabunk thread!! You don't want people to see the fact I have demolished your nonsensical claim. BTW you should also understand that metabunk threads are often split into multiple threads if the discussion diverges significantly from the OP topic and comments also get shifted to rambles threads where people can rant at will without distracting from the specific topic in the original post.

Itchy Boy

You really don't need visual aids to see Jeff is way off kilter. Look at the distance between his knees and compare to the distance between his inner thighs near the crotch. They're almost the same. Try doing that with your own legs. Your legs will form a "V" whereas Jeff's form a "U". Here's one more way to prove Jeff's right leg is a prosthetic which is not attached to his real stump. In this animation, the femurs balls have been placed about where TrailBlazer had them (red circles). The middle of the ball is the pivot point. As you can see, when Jeff puts his knees together he has an extremely wide, impossible gap at the crotch. (The grey line represents the mid point between the thighs, roughly where Jeff's wee-wee would be.) In this version, Jeff's right leg is lined up to the 'black device' and when he brings his knees together, it looks normal. This will probably be my last post here. I've made my case and Greg has made his. The reader will decide for themselves which arguments are most compelling. No doubt Greg will have a response to this post and I'll append that to the saved thread. Greg can have the last word.

Itchy Boy
I have rested my case. Greg has sent another blocked reply.
The links ending in 32b2.jpg and 55d0.jpg get a 404 error.
For those interested in reading Greg's blocked messages you can find them here:

Greg McKee
Sorry but you are completely WRONG. As the metabunk thread conclusively proves, the legs will NOT form a V in Jeff's pose.­029d073232b2.jpg­3719a78b55d0.jpg There is no black device, just Jeff's bunched up shredded torn pants. Your gif­f is completely childish since human legs are not image cutouts. They are 3dimensional and the position of bones MOVE relative to the external form of muscle and skin. We don't have crab exoskeletons but have soft compliant flesh and muscle that deform extensively . That's why it's very hard to move in a suit of armour because they can't deform to allow a normal range of human movement and require large cut out areas and multiple overlapping sliding sections. Look at this XRAY video of a human shoulder and notice how there is a huge change in distance between the underarm skin to the centre of rotation of the shoulder ball. Look at the distance between the elbow skin and the centre of rotation of the elbow joint If comrade Itchy had done one of his pathetic static image cutout overlays he would be claiming such shoulder and elbow motion was anatomically impossible.

Itchy Boy

I've rested my case, so I am not presenting any new evidence. But duty compels me to debunk the 'skeleton' evidence that Greg claims proves Jeff is anatomically correct.
Greg will have no choice but to tell you different, but judge this assertion for yourself. Jeff's thighs are very close to 90 degrees to the line of sight. Any apparent foreshortening of Jeff's thighs is negligible.

Met-a-skunk should have scrubbed this skeleton 'proof' too because TrailBlazer goofed again by providing the evidence to debunk his own claim.

What he did was to scale the skeleton so the pelvic spacing fit Jeff's 'legs', but as you can see in the side view the skeleton's thighs are nowhere near 90 degrees. He had to point the knees more towards to the camera, thereby greatly foreshortening the skeleton's thighs so they would appear the same length as Jeff's. The foreshortening wasn't enough so he had to place the hip joints significantly lower in the photo than where he placed them in his xray diagram. The skeleton was laid opaquely over Jeff so you can't see what a bad overall fit it is. Conversely, CitizenCSI's 3D model is semi-transparent so you can see how well it fits Jeff (except the right leg).

In the overlay you can see the skeleton's knee bones are way to wide to match Jeff's and the left tibia is cut off so you wouldn't notice the size discrepancy there. The skeleton's right foot was also cut because it was as long as Jeff's thigh - another givaway.

Itchy Boy

Here's another gaffe by TrailBlazer. This one should be self evident.

Here's Jeff without the skeleton so you can judge the angle of his thighs to the line of sight.

Here's TrailBlazer's final skeleton 'proof' goof.


After fake jeff moving hes limbs around the black ladys head not a single trop? we should call this dudes wizards of blood, or maybe mentally ill.

Greg McKee

Why don't you argue your point with these military doctors. let's see, It's your ignorant school dropout opinion vs military surgeons who disagree with you..­d_of_mine_just_poste­d_this/­bombings_were_staged­_because/

Greg McKee

"Jeff's thighs are very close to 90 degrees to the line of sight. Any apparent foreshortening of Jeff's thighs is negligible." Nope, What do you base that claim on? Because you think it just LOOKS 90 degrees? What angle relative to the ground is this cargo plane flying? https://cbsla.files.wordpres­

Itchy Boy

Greg has replied that Jeff's thighs are not close to 90 degrees. As proof he offered a photo of a cargo plane flying way off in the distance.
I think we've exhausted this topic so I'm going to close the archive of this thread with Greg's next comment. I'll post an updated link to the archive when it's done.

Greg McKee

Tell me, what is the angle of the cargo plane relative to the ground? The comment is highly relevant because it illustrates how it is absurd to just make assumptions based on how something "looks" in a still image. The plane is flying completely parallel to the earth's surface but thousands of people insisted it was a missile test because it LOOKS like it is climbing vertically like a rocket. You demonstrate time and again you can't grasp basic perspective. You made an assertion that Jeff's legs were at 90degrees to cameras as if it was self evident. It ISN'T . Just because to your ignorant and untrained inexpert eye Jeffs legs look perpendicular to the camera does not mean they are and your IGNORANT hunches are NOT EVIDENCE. I'm the in demand professional expert on image analysis and you are the imbecile making unfounded claims and have proven your extreme ignorance and incompetence at understanding images with every post you make.

In other words the REALITY of the cargo plane contrail image is that the plane and trail were actually flying PARALLEL to the ground when most observers of the picture assumed the object in the picture was a missile and climbing STRAIGHT UP VERTICALLY. ie the reality was 90 degrees different to most viewers perception. So you insisting that you think Jeff's knees are at 90 degrees is just as fraught with erroneous assumption and INEXPERT INCOMPETENT observation as the people who thought they were looking at a missile test. The reality of this thread is that we have my expert and well researched meticulously reasoned opinion and your delusional paranoid irrational opinion. You have no understanding or experience with first aid, physiology or prosthetics, and I have decades of expert world leading experience with both. The hilarious thing about your insistence of people supposedly trying to strap on prosthetics insitu to Bauman is that prosthetics would NEVER EVER be done that way for faking gore scenes anyway. Any prosthetic would ALREADY be attached to any actor since it it an extremely time intensive process to attach prosthetics, particularly to try to mimic injuries such as Baumans which have ZERO evidence of the telltale characteristics of prosthetics, no seam or mold lines, no seams, perfect colour and texture of seared flesh and translucency with none of the buckling characteristics of foam latex, silicone, polyurethane skinflex or vinyl hotflesh gell appliances, fully haired over where you insist there must be miraculous joins, anatomically perfect movement and deformation with gravity. If anyone wanted to simulate a leg level landmine then the appliance would have been fitted long before an actor was on the street and a rig would be fitted to allow the actor to walk around and then have that false foot be removed . Our team did plenty of prosthetics work for Hacksaw ridge and Saving Private Ryan and Fury. They think your ideas are hysterically funny in their extreme ignorance. Only a mental case would think anyone would try to fit an appliance AFTER a supposed fake bomb went off. Who took jeff's false leg AWAY that allowed him to walk? WHERE is the footage of that? Why are there no images of people carrying false legs and feet? You really just need a psychiatrist Itchy, and to grow up.

It's not a closing statement. This issue will never be closed as long as sick people such as yourself misrepresent reality, deliberately make up completely baseless nonsense and continue to make absurd delusional posts despite having the errors of your thinking pointed out and being corrected by experts on subjects you know nothing about and repeatedly demonstrate you cannot grasp.